Q/A with PiraiSudi Mama
Questions: Why and how Atma comes into the vicious circle of birth and death? If you say it is due to karma , how this Aatma afflicted by karmic bondage from the very beginning. How karma originated and attached to Aatma to take a birth? What is the cause for such bondage to soul? How and why the soul entangled into the grip of Maya?
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The analogy of a dream is the simplest way to think about this.
When I'm in a dream and take the "dream-life experience" to be real, its almost impossible to enquire into when "dream life experience started" or "Why it started?"
Any amount of questioning will not provide answer, so long as I'm convinced that the "dream-life experience" is real.
However when I'm beginnning to get glimpse of the notion that the "this is all a dream" (while still dreaming) one of two things happen either
Case (a) - I wake up immediately to dissolve the dream
or
Case (b) - We wake up a little later, despite knowing "this is a dream", even before the dream ended.
In either of the two cases the question "when did that dream begin" will remain unanswered largely because the questioner - the "dream-self" has vanished into "waking-self".
--------------
Similarly the questions in our so called "waking-life" about the following : -
- How the One became Many? or
- Why did God who is perfect and desireless create this universe? or
- If Brahman is non-dual, why is there duality being presented to our senses or
- What is the original cause of bondage etc ?
- How this Aatma got afflicted by karmic bondage from the very beginning?
--> All these questions can't be answered in a fool-proof manner, since the fundamental premise behind these questions is that "What happened before God created Time, Space?"
This question is illogical
Why?
The question "what happened before time was created" is illogical, because before time, there cant be cause-effect relationship
So what is Vedanta's position on this matter ?
Vedanta says - Get Rid of Avidya, which is the source of all suffering - in the form of coming and going (rebirth etc) - source of all suffering.
(Sri Buddha gives a response to similar effect - in the arrow analogy - remove the arrow that is spreading poison, why bother about its origin)
--------------
In Advaita Vedanta Sampradhayam - the question w.r.t origin of Universe, Ignorace etc is dealt in this way - which is very practical ? Since the goal of Vedanta is to develop Sraddha on Advaita Atma Swarupam, so as to overcome all suffering in life.
The Avidya which is termed as the cause of the Universe or Creation or Duality etc.... is Anaadi - i.e. Beginingless - why ? Because Time, Space etc are itself an outcome of Avidya.
Knowledge of Brahman as Adviteeyam, i.e. Atman is Brahman - destroys any little amount of faith one has in the reality of time, space, causation. So the question about origins of individual soul's first birth etc...all gets destroyed.
--------------
What is Avidya?
This mixing up of the real and the unreal by putting properties of Non-Self on Self (i.e Assuming Self has Nama, Rupa) and properties of Self on Non-Self (i.e. Assuming objects we percieve have Real existence apart from Brahman or Atman or are source of joy to us - like relatives, friends, cattle, wealth etc) is Avidya.
This tendency is so natural to all mankind that no one suspects that he is under the influence of this primary ignorance due to want of Vivekam (discrimination from the Real and the Unreal)
This discrimination and determination of our Swarupam is termed Brahma Vidya.
Brahma Vidya negates Avidya.
Upanisad is another name for Brahma Vidya.
-----------
Does Karma bind us ? If so when and when not ?
Karma only binds us when we think we the doer - are limited by body, mind, time, space, cause- effect relation. It ceases to bind us, when we recognize - on account of Sraddha (on Brahma Vidya outlined by Sruti) - that we are Shuddha Chaithanyam not just limited by body and mind.
Sri Sankara says - "those who see that Self is other than the body, naturally feel Vairagyam - i.e avoid attachment and aversion"
Such Vairagyam is natural a Parimalam of Vivekam - not an outcome of typical human effort relying upon finite human will.
In the beginning of Gita when Arjuna is depressed. Sri Sankara analyzes his situation as being a result of "avidya" of identifying the Atman with Body, Mind, Egotism.
Sri Sankara says "Cessation (of suffering/samsara) cannot be encompassed except through Self- Knowledge" - Gita Bhasyam Intro
Sri Sankara also says in Gita Bhasyam "AvidyaadhyAropana niraakaranamaatram brahmani kartavyam na tu brahmajnaane yatnah atyanta-prasiddhdatvaat.."
TRANS: _Therefore, as regards Brahman what is to be aimed at is only the repudiation of objects superimposed through Avidya. No other effort is needed to secure knowledge of Brahman_
REF: BG.18.50 - Gita Bhasyam
-----------
Some people say Avidya is Beginingless, What does this mean ?
This Avidya is beginningless because Avidya manifests itself as Time, Space and Causation (Desha, Kaalam, Karya Kaarana Sambhandham)....since Time itself is due to Avidya - it seems like Avidya is beginingless.
Since Avidya is beginingless, our past births also seem like countless.
Once Sraddha in Brahma Vidya arises in our hearts - we realize we are Unborn. So the validity of the question about our past births or source of firt birth all vanishes, like the dream, upon waking to reality.
"Ajo nityah sasvato(a)yam purano na hanyate hanyamane sarire".
-------
Jnana Marga has only one Pre-requisite - Sraddha
What is Sraddha ?
sAstrasya guruvAkyasya satyabuddhyavadhAranam |
sA sraddhA kathitA sadbhiryayA vastUpalabhyate || 25|| Vivekachudamani
Faith in Upanisads, Guru Sampradhayam, Clarity in understanding arising from Constant Reflection on Guru Vaakyam-Sruti(Upanisad)-Taatparyam.
2nd line - sA sraddhaa kathitA sadbhih yayA vastu Upalabyate
Due to Sraddha, yaya Vastu (that Knowledge of Reality) Upalabyate (is attained) - which frees us from grief.
---------
The analogy of a dream is the simplest way to think about this.
When I'm in a dream and take the "dream-life experience" to be real, its almost impossible to enquire into when "dream life experience started" or "Why it started?"
Any amount of questioning will not provide answer, so long as I'm convinced that the "dream-life experience" is real.
However when I'm beginnning to get glimpse of the notion that the "this is all a dream" (while still dreaming) one of two things happen either
Case (a) - I wake up immediately to dissolve the dream
or
Case (b) - We wake up a little later, despite knowing "this is a dream", even before the dream ended.
In either of the two cases the question "when did that dream begin" will remain unanswered largely because the questioner - the "dream-self" has vanished into "waking-self".
--------------
Similarly the questions in our so called "waking-life" about the following : -
- How the One became Many? or
- Why did God who is perfect and desireless create this universe? or
- If Brahman is non-dual, why is there duality being presented to our senses or
- What is the original cause of bondage etc ?
- How this Aatma got afflicted by karmic bondage from the very beginning?
--> All these questions can't be answered in a fool-proof manner, since the fundamental premise behind these questions is that "What happened before God created Time, Space?"
This question is illogical
Why?
The question "what happened before time was created" is illogical, because before time, there cant be cause-effect relationship
So what is Vedanta's position on this matter ?
Vedanta says - Get Rid of Avidya, which is the source of all suffering - in the form of coming and going (rebirth etc) - source of all suffering.
(Sri Buddha gives a response to similar effect - in the arrow analogy - remove the arrow that is spreading poison, why bother about its origin)
--------------
In Advaita Vedanta Sampradhayam - the question w.r.t origin of Universe, Ignorace etc is dealt in this way - which is very practical ? Since the goal of Vedanta is to develop Sraddha on Advaita Atma Swarupam, so as to overcome all suffering in life.
The Avidya which is termed as the cause of the Universe or Creation or Duality etc.... is Anaadi - i.e. Beginingless - why ? Because Time, Space etc are itself an outcome of Avidya.
Knowledge of Brahman as Adviteeyam, i.e. Atman is Brahman - destroys any little amount of faith one has in the reality of time, space, causation. So the question about origins of individual soul's first birth etc...all gets destroyed.
--------------
What is Avidya?
This mixing up of the real and the unreal by putting properties of Non-Self on Self (i.e Assuming Self has Nama, Rupa) and properties of Self on Non-Self (i.e. Assuming objects we percieve have Real existence apart from Brahman or Atman or are source of joy to us - like relatives, friends, cattle, wealth etc) is Avidya.
This tendency is so natural to all mankind that no one suspects that he is under the influence of this primary ignorance due to want of Vivekam (discrimination from the Real and the Unreal)
This discrimination and determination of our Swarupam is termed Brahma Vidya.
Brahma Vidya negates Avidya.
Upanisad is another name for Brahma Vidya.
-----------
Does Karma bind us ? If so when and when not ?
Karma only binds us when we think we the doer - are limited by body, mind, time, space, cause- effect relation. It ceases to bind us, when we recognize - on account of Sraddha (on Brahma Vidya outlined by Sruti) - that we are Shuddha Chaithanyam not just limited by body and mind.
Sri Sankara says - "those who see that Self is other than the body, naturally feel Vairagyam - i.e avoid attachment and aversion"
Such Vairagyam is natural a Parimalam of Vivekam - not an outcome of typical human effort relying upon finite human will.
In the beginning of Gita when Arjuna is depressed. Sri Sankara analyzes his situation as being a result of "avidya" of identifying the Atman with Body, Mind, Egotism.
Sri Sankara says "Cessation (of suffering/samsara) cannot be encompassed except through Self- Knowledge" - Gita Bhasyam Intro
Sri Sankara also says in Gita Bhasyam "AvidyaadhyAropana niraakaranamaatram brahmani kartavyam na tu brahmajnaane yatnah atyanta-prasiddhdatvaat.."
TRANS: _Therefore, as regards Brahman what is to be aimed at is only the repudiation of objects superimposed through Avidya. No other effort is needed to secure knowledge of Brahman_
REF: BG.18.50 - Gita Bhasyam
-----------
Some people say Avidya is Beginingless, What does this mean ?
This Avidya is beginningless because Avidya manifests itself as Time, Space and Causation (Desha, Kaalam, Karya Kaarana Sambhandham)....since Time itself is due to Avidya - it seems like Avidya is beginingless.
Since Avidya is beginingless, our past births also seem like countless.
Once Sraddha in Brahma Vidya arises in our hearts - we realize we are Unborn. So the validity of the question about our past births or source of firt birth all vanishes, like the dream, upon waking to reality.
"Ajo nityah sasvato(a)yam purano na hanyate hanyamane sarire".
-------
Jnana Marga has only one Pre-requisite - Sraddha
What is Sraddha ?
sAstrasya guruvAkyasya satyabuddhyavadhAranam |
sA sraddhA kathitA sadbhiryayA vastUpalabhyate || 25|| Vivekachudamani
Faith in Upanisads, Guru Sampradhayam, Clarity in understanding arising from Constant Reflection on Guru Vaakyam-Sruti(Upanisad)-Taatparyam.
2nd line - sA sraddhaa kathitA sadbhih yayA vastu Upalabyate
Due to Sraddha, yaya Vastu (that Knowledge of Reality) Upalabyate (is attained) - which frees us from grief.
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